[NeedlessMemeing]

Lol Stan. Would mind selling me the copyrights to that image?

If we're going to make Lawyer a non-applied role, I think we should just remove the Lawyer from the career progression image altogether, so it looks like this:

Back to my point, making anyone have lawyer would lead to corruption and bad lawyers, if you hired a lawyer only to find out he’s untrained wouldn’t you be mad?

Well then fire him my guy. If you really want a lawyer, then you should know which ones are the best.

[wonslowcar]

Applying for chief, then applying for deputy, then applying for captain some what makes sense. IRL, you aren't going to go from police officer > judge.

From learn.org on what it requires to be a judge:
Step Two: Attend Law School and Obtain a Juris Doctor
Most judges have earned law degrees. In some states, you may become a judge without a law degree, but your prospects will be greatly enhanced if you obtain this credential. You must pass the Law School Admission Test (LSAT) in order to be admitted to law school. Achieving a good score on the LSAT, along with excellent undergraduate grades, can help your chances of being admitted to competitive law programs.

You should also attend a law school that has been approved by the American Bar Association. Your curriculum should include courses such as civil procedure, evidence, legal philosophy, advanced legal research and jurisprudence. Law school takes about three years to complete. Upon graduating, you'll receive a Juris Doctor (J.D.).

Step Three: Pass the Bar and Other Exams
In all states, you must pass a written bar examination. A passing score on an ethics examination is also required in most states. Most U.S. states and territories require candidates to take the Multistate Bar Examination (MBE), a 200-question test that lasts six hours. The multiple-choice questions on the MBE evaluate examinees' knowledge of areas such as constitutional law, criminal law, evidence and contracts. Varying state by state, a local bar exam may be required along with the MBE and the ethics exam.

Step Four: Become Appointed or Elected to the Court
Experienced lawyers can be either elected or appointed to judgeships. This process often involves politics. Federal administrative law judges receive their appointments from government agencies, and they are required to take a comprehensive test given by the U.S. Office of Personnel Management. A number of state-level judges are appointed to their posts, while others are elected by voters. In several states, appointed commissions evaluate candidates for judgeships.

Step Five: Complete Judgeship Training
Elected and appointed judges must participate in training programs, as required by every state. Judicial education programs are offered by the National Center for State Courts and the American Bar Association. In the majority of states, judges are required to enroll in continuing education classes throughout their careers.

Making the lawyer role mvp or higher would make sense, and then the given lawyer would have to have a certain number of hours to apply for judge (like chief). Someone who knows nothing about law is not likely to become something they will suck at. The mayor could demote lawyers and judges at will for giving fake information, bribery, ect.

[Mushy]

Applying for chief, then applying for deputy, then applying for captain some what makes sense. IRL, you aren't going to go from police officer > judge.

From learn.org on what it requires to be a judge:
Step Two: Attend Law School and Obtain a Juris Doctor
Most judges have earned law degrees. In some states, you may become a judge without a law degree, but your prospects will be greatly enhanced if you obtain this credential. You must pass the Law School Admission Test (LSAT) in order to be admitted to law school. Achieving a good score on the LSAT, along with excellent undergraduate grades, can help your chances of being admitted to competitive law programs.

You should also attend a law school that has been approved by the American Bar Association. Your curriculum should include courses such as civil procedure, evidence, legal philosophy, advanced legal research and jurisprudence. Law school takes about three years to complete. Upon graduating, you'll receive a Juris Doctor (J.D.).

Step Three: Pass the Bar and Other Exams
In all states, you must pass a written bar examination. A passing score on an ethics examination is also required in most states. Most U.S. states and territories require candidates to take the Multistate Bar Examination (MBE), a 200-question test that lasts six hours. The multiple-choice questions on the MBE evaluate examinees' knowledge of areas such as constitutional law, criminal law, evidence and contracts. Varying state by state, a local bar exam may be required along with the MBE and the ethics exam.

Step Four: Become Appointed or Elected to the Court
Experienced lawyers can be either elected or appointed to judgeships. This process often involves politics. Federal administrative law judges receive their appointments from government agencies, and they are required to take a comprehensive test given by the U.S. Office of Personnel Management. A number of state-level judges are appointed to their posts, while others are elected by voters. In several states, appointed commissions evaluate candidates for judgeships.

Step Five: Complete Judgeship Training
Elected and appointed judges must participate in training programs, as required by every state. Judicial education programs are offered by the National Center for State Courts and the American Bar Association. In the majority of states, judges are required to enroll in continuing education classes throughout their careers.

Making the lawyer role mvp or higher would make sense, and then the given lawyer would have to have a certain number of hours to apply for judge (like chief). Someone who knows nothing about law is not likely to become something they will suck at. The mayor could demote lawyers and judges at will for giving fake information, bribery, ect.

This all sounds completely comprehensible and I do agree it makes a lot of sense to follow the way things work in the real world. However, we also have to take into consideration the very reason why we're having this discussion, as pointed out by Berrie Dealer below:

If it branches from a role you have to apply from, it will be dead.

Basically, the more obstacles we add to players becoming a Judge the less you'll see of them, and the more useless the Lawyer role would become, since their primary objective depends on the availability of Judges. I suggest we keep it simple and make use of our existing application system for Judges (partly due to the amount of work it took us to add it, admittedly.)

We need to think within the realm of reality but also objectively. That is, to not over-complicate things so that Lawyers can't play out their roles because there aren't any Judges around due to "realism". We need to regard gameplay experience to a higher standard than realism, or else things will get boring. It is definitely possible to strike a balance between the two and I'm not necessarily arguing against your idea. I think we should really think these changes through, since a Lawyer isn't much of a role if there are little to no Judges around.

We could separate the the Police Roles career paths from the Lawyer and Judge ones, like so:

We could keep the Judge applications on the forums, with players vouching and testifying that the applicant has indeed been a lawyer before and is competent enough to be a Judge. That way all you would need is to be a good, reputable Lawyer before you can apply for Judge. What do you guys think?

[TrippL]

Applying for chief, then applying for deputy, then applying for captain some what makes sense. IRL, you aren't going to go from police officer > judge.

From learn.org on what it requires to be a judge:
Step Two: Attend Law School and Obtain a Juris Doctor
Most judges have earned law degrees. In some states, you may become a judge without a law degree, but your prospects will be greatly enhanced if you obtain this credential. You must pass the Law School Admission Test (LSAT) in order to be admitted to law school. Achieving a good score on the LSAT, along with excellent undergraduate grades, can help your chances of being admitted to competitive law programs.

You should also attend a law school that has been approved by the American Bar Association. Your curriculum should include courses such as civil procedure, evidence, legal philosophy, advanced legal research and jurisprudence. Law school takes about three years to complete. Upon graduating, you'll receive a Juris Doctor (J.D.).

Step Three: Pass the Bar and Other Exams
In all states, you must pass a written bar examination. A passing score on an ethics examination is also required in most states. Most U.S. states and territories require candidates to take the Multistate Bar Examination (MBE), a 200-question test that lasts six hours. The multiple-choice questions on the MBE evaluate examinees' knowledge of areas such as constitutional law, criminal law, evidence and contracts. Varying state by state, a local bar exam may be required along with the MBE and the ethics exam.

Step Four: Become Appointed or Elected to the Court
Experienced lawyers can be either elected or appointed to judgeships. This process often involves politics. Federal administrative law judges receive their appointments from government agencies, and they are required to take a comprehensive test given by the U.S. Office of Personnel Management. A number of state-level judges are appointed to their posts, while others are elected by voters. In several states, appointed commissions evaluate candidates for judgeships.

Step Five: Complete Judgeship Training
Elected and appointed judges must participate in training programs, as required by every state. Judicial education programs are offered by the National Center for State Courts and the American Bar Association. In the majority of states, judges are required to enroll in continuing education classes throughout their careers.

Making the lawyer role mvp or higher would make sense, and then the given lawyer would have to have a certain number of hours to apply for judge (like chief). Someone who knows nothing about law is not likely to become something they will suck at. The mayor could demote lawyers and judges at will for giving fake information, bribery, ect.

This all sounds completely comprehensible and I do agree it makes a lot of sense to follow the way things work in the real world. However, we also have to take into consideration the very reason why we're having this discussion, as pointed out by Berrie Dealer below:

If it branches from a role you have to apply from, it will be dead.

Basically, the more obstacles we add to players becoming a Judge the less you'll see of them, and the more useless the Lawyer role would become, since their primary objective depends on the availability of Judges. I suggest we keep it simple and make use of our existing application system for Judges (partly due to the amount of work it took us to add it, admittedly.)

We need to think within the realm of reality but also objectively. That is, to not over-complicate things so that Lawyers can't play out their roles because there aren't any Judges around due to "realism". We need to regard gameplay experience to a higher standard than realism, or else things will get boring. It is definitely possible to strike a balance between the two and I'm not necessarily arguing against your idea. I think we should really think these changes through, since a Lawyer isn't much of a role if there are little to no Judges around.

We could separate the the Police Roles career paths from the Lawyer and Judge ones, like so:

We could keep the Judge applications on the forums, with players vouching and testifying that the applicant has indeed been a lawyer before and is competent enough to be a Judge. That way all you would need is to be a good, reputable Lawyer before you can apply for Judge. What do you guys think?

[Berrie Dealer]

I totally agree with Mushy's career path there. You should have to be a lawyer for a certain amount of hours, then apply for judge and have a poll. It should not branch out from a police rank or role.

[Berrie Dealer]

Let me rephrase. You should be able to pick the lawyer role if you're MVP or higher, but the judge role you should have to apply for after being a lawyer not a law enforcement.

[Mellon]

make the lawyer mvp and up, but also need 100 hours on rp

[Danny Dog]

Putting it a MVP up is ridiculous. It shouldn't be brought but after 50 hours on RP unlocked. If you make it so to be a lawyer you need to donate $40 you aren't going to have many lawyers or judges.

[iMC]

Agreeing with Stan here, putting it MVP only restricts the amount of lawyers on. It should be 50-100 hours on RP before you can become a lawyer.

Also agreeing with Mushy here with the career paths, as in real life a lawyer does not need police experience, but a judge definitely needs lawyer experience.

TL;DR: Yes to mushy's career paths, no to restricting lawyer/judge to MVP.

[-NSEW-]

Agreeing with Stan here, putting it MVP only restricts the amount of lawyers on. It should be 50-100 hours on RP before you can become a lawyer.

Also agreeing with Mushy here with the career paths, as in real life a lawyer does not need police experience, but a judge definitely needs lawyer experience.

TL;DR: Yes to mushy's career paths, no to restricting lawyer/judge to MVP.

Adding to iMC’s words, I believe that making Lawyer different is better. MVP sounds like a fair rank for it, but if it wasn’t going to a rank, then it should go to an application on the forums. Application will require only 10 votes for Lawyer. Judge will be 30, same as Deputy. Other requirements for Lawyer will be minimum 50 Hours on RP, supported by a full Mod or higher. Judge should require at least 10 successful trials (with trial numbers) and have at least 30 Hours, supported by SuperMod or higher, as Lawyer to apply.

Other than this, I also agree with Mushy’s plan.