- March 22nd, 2017, 7:32 am
#69826
First off, I have a colorful vocabulary and if you get triggered or whatever by aggressive words just close the tab. I stress now that it isn't anger or resentment in my tone, merely criticism. Lastly, I know my opinions mean jack shit and there is no reason to listen to me, but the insight that I will provide could be useful in the long run of PandaHut.
So short story, I was a new player, read the rules of being a bandit, started looting like normal, then an airdrop happened. I chased it down and was the first person there. Being a Bandit My heart was racing and my eyes were dashing frantically putting stuff in my inventory whilst listening for incoming footsteps/gunshots. I heard footsteps approaching. I backed away and a player who was decently equipped walked up to the air drop. I Verbally warned the player to stay away as i was looting the airdrop and if he came closer I would open fire. With no regard or even acknowledgement of my command the player walked right up and started looting the crate. I was forced to shoot. I looted the airdrop and another player who was just in farmer's clothing walked up and I told him the same thing. This time things went different, The player told me he only needed a gun and asked if he could have one from the pile of guns laying on the ground from the guy I shot previously. I allowed it for the sake of good faith, because if I had nothing I would have done the same. That is rp. Using your social skills, intuition and decision making abilities to decide how a situation plays out, good or bad. Ten minutes after that event, I was given a warn without any reason or explanation. Even with further asking in world chat the staff online did not respond.
Now I am assuming the warn was for killing the player before, because from what I've been told by several helpful moderators is that Airdrops and all the land around it is basically a safe zone unless you rob or raid. Which makes no fucking sense. The role I took as a bandit gave me the mindset that I was a bandit, someone who takes what they want with no regard of another persons fate. Not some pushover that shares with anyone that walks up to an airdrop without a word and starts looting, killing the experience and any roleplay that would come with it.
I have been in a staff position before. Not on Unturned, but I can see so many similarities from the previous staff experience that I would know that it's all about the data. I understand why the rob system and all the /commands are there. They are there so staff can use that information to deal with sits and reports. They do not add anything to roleplay and in my opinion actually hurt and weaken a player's experience. I'll even throw up a scenario. You type /rob and tell a player to drop all of their weapons, the player does not comply and you start typing up a warn because you need 3 warns to actually fucking shoot the asshole. While typing the player pulls out a gun and because you are busy typing away at warnings (absolutely killing any immersion you would have), The player shoots you and you are fucked. Now you have a unfair situation, because the bandit/criminal has to go through all these hoops just to shoot a guy, while the other player can free fire as soon as the robbery starts. This ruins roleplay, and pisses players off.
Roleplay is fun, and I understand to keep the trolls and rdmrs away you have to restrict roleplay. There has to be a balance though. A balance between roleplay and rules. The rules have to be there to keep the peace while not restricting roleplay opportunities like the airdrop.
So, I thought something productive would be going through the rules and pointing out flaws and possible improvements at the end to making the rp experience actually feel like rp and not pointless drivel.
Here we go.
I: Fear rp and Hardcore rp
1. FearRp is retarded. It inhibits any creative role play and makes player experience overall shitty. What if I was roleplaying as a farmer who didn't care if he died, his wife passed away 4 years ago and his kids/grandkids never visit. He was days away from putting a shotgun to his head, while working on his farm a bandit walks up and demands all his goods and weapons, not fearing death. The farmer would make completely different actions rather if he was terrified. Overall Fearrp restricts roleplay creatively and puts a stress on players to comply with the dumb rule or face a warn/ban.
2. Let me just be clear, you can never have serious/hardcore roleplay when as soon as you break a rule, even by accident, you are teleported to a sit and confronted by staff. It shatters roleplay and to call it Roleplay while doing that at the same time is a joke. Also, out of character issues are always said in chat with little to no punishment from what I could see.
II: Kidnapping
1. A cooldown is in place to prevent trolling and i believe this is fair.
2. The second half of this rule contradicts the fearrp aspect of the game because if you were an unarmed individual, you would listen to the guy with a gun if he told you to get in a room. Restricting roleplay, makign it only kidnappers can kidnap which in my opinion is completely different from taking hostages.
3. From now on If i think a rule is fair I will just say Fair.
4. I dabbled with the warn system previously and my point stands, and as a person being kidnap they would be breaking a server rule not to comply because of fearrp, strengthening my opinion on why fear rp is retarded. (because it breaks half the rules in itself).
5. I will deal with this subject manner at the end. Any more like this will get a End.
6.End
7. "once this is done there can be no shooting my police officers" This rule isn't clear enough and does not address if an officer can make a arrest.
8.End
9. There is no clear way any official could tell it was a hitman to pay unless the hitman actually said he was a hitman (because a real hitman would never tell police that he is a fucking hitman).
10. There are so many cases of kidnapping deaths this rule is ridiculous. People get kidnapped for more reasons then just ransom and half the time the "hostage" will fucking die. Kidnappers kill. Whether to make sure they are not found out or out of more devious desires. Putting a rule that restrict kidnappers to role play a certain way is ridiculous. If the kidnapper has a grudge against a player he should be the one to decide if the "hostage" gets fucking lead in his head.
11. I understand this is for balancing purposes and for the sake of fair rp.
III : Hits
1. Fair and official way to declare a hit, I am unaware if this is only the hitman and the payer's knowledge or if it gets broadcast serverwide.
2. Fair
3. Fair
4. Alright. this will come up a couple times. Unless a hitman kills his target in broad daylight with people around. There is no fucking way anyone would know about it, or even who did it. Thus making the 10 percent thing redundant and rp breaking. I will give it credit, it is a clever and fun way to put life in the hitman job, but it makes no fucking sense rp wise.
5. Fair
6. Fair
7. Fair
8. Fair
9. Going back to 4. the player would have no rp clue that they have a hit on their head. It is basically meta gaming. Also the player would have no rp clue the person is a hitman.
10. Fair
11. Touching alittle on 9, but fair
12. Serious 4 rule. Let me repeat. Officials would have no idea if a hit took place or even who did it. unless in a public area of course.
13. Fair but restricting in ways.
IV: Robberies
1. Seeing as bandits is the only role that makes sense to rob this is fair.
2. This rule makes sense but at the same time no sense, in any real life scenario you would see anything on a persona nd demand it or demand they strip. I understand this is a game and inventory is basically a huge cavity in the anus. So you would only see what the player is carrying on them and not in their magical anus cavity. making this technically fair but flawed at the same time.
3. Fair for balancing.
4. Restricting, but fair. Makes being a sniper of any sort basically out of the picture.
V: Claim flags
1. This rule makes players get "creative" and make loot spots into bases, I've seen multiple spots completely blocked off my players. Letting the players put claims on loot spots but making it so they cannot build on loot spots, will make loot spots more valuable and create tension and good roleplay from it. Like trading ect.
2.^^
VI: Friendly sentry gun
1. Honestly this all checks out as fair balancing and probably wouldn't effect roleplay much.
VII: Raids
1. Cooldown seems a bit long. And I cannot tell if the rule means in game days or real life days. If it is ingame days I believe it would be hard to enforce that.
2.End
3. Fair
4.Fair
5. This makes no sense because if the raiders are still in the base looting then the raid should not be over. Makes no sense. Also, letting people base owners come back while raiders are still inside looting is retarded and just ackward leading to situations where rules would be broken. A base owner should only come back after the raid is done, ie when all the raiders are completely gone.
6. Fair, restricting but it makes things fair.
7. Fair
8. Fair
9. Fair
VIII: KOS
1. Understandable, but gets tricky when it's self defense such as threats ect (plays into fearrp for defending your life).
2. I'll only bring up what isn't fair. 1.If you watch a player drive off with your car it makes no sense that you can't kill him any longer, with all the meta gaming rules I went over i'm surprised that there is a rule like this. Seeing as players can kill any hitman while they are on a hitlist, why can't a person who watched there car get stolen track the asshole down and kill him for it or remember the player did that. 2.If you are in a group and see another player stealing gas/car this rule prevents you from doing anything. 3. end 4. See scenario and warning rant 4th paragraph.5. Fair, but it you drop an item you should be able to demand it back because it is your item to begin with.
IX: Extra important rules
1. Although in good faith this rule makes no sense because a driver could always claim they didn't see the player on the road and there would be no way to dispute it.
2. Fair
3. I believe this rule should be reworded. "You may pop vehicle tires when in a police chase / any other RP situation which requires to stop the person from driving away. Any other reason is not allowed and will be punished" Also as a bandit vandalism should be a part of roleplay.
4. Fair
5. Fair
6. Fair, but makes people put cars in weird places.
7. Fair
8. Fair
9.^
10. Bandit vandalism should be a thing and makes no sense to restrict it, protect your shit if you don't want it to be fucked with.
11. Fair
12. Fair
13. Fair
14. You should always be able to defend yourself from dying ( toying with fear rp rule ;) )
15. Fair
16. I understand but scamming is part of rp, people should be able to make reputations for themselves. not always obey.
17. Fair
Okay final part. I understand rules are an important part of any rp server. They will always be needed unfortunately. With this warning system, as I touched on in the 4th paragraph is insanely flawed, it creates a very unfair advantage to the victim and makes rp even harder to do. I will also bring back up my point about data. Data is very important and is a very easy tool to dish out punishments and to check if rules were followed, but again it hurts real roleplay insanely. Let me offer this as an alternative.
Instead of all these warnings. Instead of making players type out everything they are doing, Watch them. If an event happens where a rule has been broken, put the player who broke the rule on a higher watch list, to have a staff member spectate ect. Instead of dishing out punishments by raw data and biased testimonies. Settle things with your own eyes to determine if the player is in need of punishment. You need a determined and watchful staff to be able to accomplish this, and talking with the few moderators I did I can say you have the potential. Create a community around trust. Let your staff be a part of the community whilst being the authority at the same time. If some staff can't handle that basic thing. Get rid of them. From what I have said I believe this will create a way more positive and accepting environment where you will have more regular players that will stay because of good staff and fair rules and more donations because of player happiness.
Irrelevant, but I was banned from the server for rdm. From all the restricting rules it killed my fun and made me not care about any consequences.
For the sake of Pandahut, please consider what I have said and turn this into a community wide discussion.
I would be more then happy to discuss any concerns.
If you got this far and read everything, I think you've earned this. https://youtu.be/JOCtdw9FG-s?t=31s
So short story, I was a new player, read the rules of being a bandit, started looting like normal, then an airdrop happened. I chased it down and was the first person there. Being a Bandit My heart was racing and my eyes were dashing frantically putting stuff in my inventory whilst listening for incoming footsteps/gunshots. I heard footsteps approaching. I backed away and a player who was decently equipped walked up to the air drop. I Verbally warned the player to stay away as i was looting the airdrop and if he came closer I would open fire. With no regard or even acknowledgement of my command the player walked right up and started looting the crate. I was forced to shoot. I looted the airdrop and another player who was just in farmer's clothing walked up and I told him the same thing. This time things went different, The player told me he only needed a gun and asked if he could have one from the pile of guns laying on the ground from the guy I shot previously. I allowed it for the sake of good faith, because if I had nothing I would have done the same. That is rp. Using your social skills, intuition and decision making abilities to decide how a situation plays out, good or bad. Ten minutes after that event, I was given a warn without any reason or explanation. Even with further asking in world chat the staff online did not respond.
Now I am assuming the warn was for killing the player before, because from what I've been told by several helpful moderators is that Airdrops and all the land around it is basically a safe zone unless you rob or raid. Which makes no fucking sense. The role I took as a bandit gave me the mindset that I was a bandit, someone who takes what they want with no regard of another persons fate. Not some pushover that shares with anyone that walks up to an airdrop without a word and starts looting, killing the experience and any roleplay that would come with it.
I have been in a staff position before. Not on Unturned, but I can see so many similarities from the previous staff experience that I would know that it's all about the data. I understand why the rob system and all the /commands are there. They are there so staff can use that information to deal with sits and reports. They do not add anything to roleplay and in my opinion actually hurt and weaken a player's experience. I'll even throw up a scenario. You type /rob and tell a player to drop all of their weapons, the player does not comply and you start typing up a warn because you need 3 warns to actually fucking shoot the asshole. While typing the player pulls out a gun and because you are busy typing away at warnings (absolutely killing any immersion you would have), The player shoots you and you are fucked. Now you have a unfair situation, because the bandit/criminal has to go through all these hoops just to shoot a guy, while the other player can free fire as soon as the robbery starts. This ruins roleplay, and pisses players off.
Roleplay is fun, and I understand to keep the trolls and rdmrs away you have to restrict roleplay. There has to be a balance though. A balance between roleplay and rules. The rules have to be there to keep the peace while not restricting roleplay opportunities like the airdrop.
So, I thought something productive would be going through the rules and pointing out flaws and possible improvements at the end to making the rp experience actually feel like rp and not pointless drivel.
Here we go.
I: Fear rp and Hardcore rp
1. FearRp is retarded. It inhibits any creative role play and makes player experience overall shitty. What if I was roleplaying as a farmer who didn't care if he died, his wife passed away 4 years ago and his kids/grandkids never visit. He was days away from putting a shotgun to his head, while working on his farm a bandit walks up and demands all his goods and weapons, not fearing death. The farmer would make completely different actions rather if he was terrified. Overall Fearrp restricts roleplay creatively and puts a stress on players to comply with the dumb rule or face a warn/ban.
2. Let me just be clear, you can never have serious/hardcore roleplay when as soon as you break a rule, even by accident, you are teleported to a sit and confronted by staff. It shatters roleplay and to call it Roleplay while doing that at the same time is a joke. Also, out of character issues are always said in chat with little to no punishment from what I could see.
II: Kidnapping
1. A cooldown is in place to prevent trolling and i believe this is fair.
2. The second half of this rule contradicts the fearrp aspect of the game because if you were an unarmed individual, you would listen to the guy with a gun if he told you to get in a room. Restricting roleplay, makign it only kidnappers can kidnap which in my opinion is completely different from taking hostages.
3. From now on If i think a rule is fair I will just say Fair.
4. I dabbled with the warn system previously and my point stands, and as a person being kidnap they would be breaking a server rule not to comply because of fearrp, strengthening my opinion on why fear rp is retarded. (because it breaks half the rules in itself).
5. I will deal with this subject manner at the end. Any more like this will get a End.
6.End
7. "once this is done there can be no shooting my police officers" This rule isn't clear enough and does not address if an officer can make a arrest.
8.End
9. There is no clear way any official could tell it was a hitman to pay unless the hitman actually said he was a hitman (because a real hitman would never tell police that he is a fucking hitman).
10. There are so many cases of kidnapping deaths this rule is ridiculous. People get kidnapped for more reasons then just ransom and half the time the "hostage" will fucking die. Kidnappers kill. Whether to make sure they are not found out or out of more devious desires. Putting a rule that restrict kidnappers to role play a certain way is ridiculous. If the kidnapper has a grudge against a player he should be the one to decide if the "hostage" gets fucking lead in his head.
11. I understand this is for balancing purposes and for the sake of fair rp.
III : Hits
1. Fair and official way to declare a hit, I am unaware if this is only the hitman and the payer's knowledge or if it gets broadcast serverwide.
2. Fair
3. Fair
4. Alright. this will come up a couple times. Unless a hitman kills his target in broad daylight with people around. There is no fucking way anyone would know about it, or even who did it. Thus making the 10 percent thing redundant and rp breaking. I will give it credit, it is a clever and fun way to put life in the hitman job, but it makes no fucking sense rp wise.
5. Fair
6. Fair
7. Fair
8. Fair
9. Going back to 4. the player would have no rp clue that they have a hit on their head. It is basically meta gaming. Also the player would have no rp clue the person is a hitman.
10. Fair
11. Touching alittle on 9, but fair
12. Serious 4 rule. Let me repeat. Officials would have no idea if a hit took place or even who did it. unless in a public area of course.
13. Fair but restricting in ways.
IV: Robberies
1. Seeing as bandits is the only role that makes sense to rob this is fair.
2. This rule makes sense but at the same time no sense, in any real life scenario you would see anything on a persona nd demand it or demand they strip. I understand this is a game and inventory is basically a huge cavity in the anus. So you would only see what the player is carrying on them and not in their magical anus cavity. making this technically fair but flawed at the same time.
3. Fair for balancing.
4. Restricting, but fair. Makes being a sniper of any sort basically out of the picture.
V: Claim flags
1. This rule makes players get "creative" and make loot spots into bases, I've seen multiple spots completely blocked off my players. Letting the players put claims on loot spots but making it so they cannot build on loot spots, will make loot spots more valuable and create tension and good roleplay from it. Like trading ect.
2.^^
VI: Friendly sentry gun
1. Honestly this all checks out as fair balancing and probably wouldn't effect roleplay much.
VII: Raids
1. Cooldown seems a bit long. And I cannot tell if the rule means in game days or real life days. If it is ingame days I believe it would be hard to enforce that.
2.End
3. Fair
4.Fair
5. This makes no sense because if the raiders are still in the base looting then the raid should not be over. Makes no sense. Also, letting people base owners come back while raiders are still inside looting is retarded and just ackward leading to situations where rules would be broken. A base owner should only come back after the raid is done, ie when all the raiders are completely gone.
6. Fair, restricting but it makes things fair.
7. Fair
8. Fair
9. Fair
VIII: KOS
1. Understandable, but gets tricky when it's self defense such as threats ect (plays into fearrp for defending your life).
2. I'll only bring up what isn't fair. 1.If you watch a player drive off with your car it makes no sense that you can't kill him any longer, with all the meta gaming rules I went over i'm surprised that there is a rule like this. Seeing as players can kill any hitman while they are on a hitlist, why can't a person who watched there car get stolen track the asshole down and kill him for it or remember the player did that. 2.If you are in a group and see another player stealing gas/car this rule prevents you from doing anything. 3. end 4. See scenario and warning rant 4th paragraph.5. Fair, but it you drop an item you should be able to demand it back because it is your item to begin with.
IX: Extra important rules
1. Although in good faith this rule makes no sense because a driver could always claim they didn't see the player on the road and there would be no way to dispute it.
2. Fair
3. I believe this rule should be reworded. "You may pop vehicle tires when in a police chase / any other RP situation which requires to stop the person from driving away. Any other reason is not allowed and will be punished" Also as a bandit vandalism should be a part of roleplay.
4. Fair
5. Fair
6. Fair, but makes people put cars in weird places.
7. Fair
8. Fair
9.^
10. Bandit vandalism should be a thing and makes no sense to restrict it, protect your shit if you don't want it to be fucked with.
11. Fair
12. Fair
13. Fair
14. You should always be able to defend yourself from dying ( toying with fear rp rule ;) )
15. Fair
16. I understand but scamming is part of rp, people should be able to make reputations for themselves. not always obey.
17. Fair
Okay final part. I understand rules are an important part of any rp server. They will always be needed unfortunately. With this warning system, as I touched on in the 4th paragraph is insanely flawed, it creates a very unfair advantage to the victim and makes rp even harder to do. I will also bring back up my point about data. Data is very important and is a very easy tool to dish out punishments and to check if rules were followed, but again it hurts real roleplay insanely. Let me offer this as an alternative.
Instead of all these warnings. Instead of making players type out everything they are doing, Watch them. If an event happens where a rule has been broken, put the player who broke the rule on a higher watch list, to have a staff member spectate ect. Instead of dishing out punishments by raw data and biased testimonies. Settle things with your own eyes to determine if the player is in need of punishment. You need a determined and watchful staff to be able to accomplish this, and talking with the few moderators I did I can say you have the potential. Create a community around trust. Let your staff be a part of the community whilst being the authority at the same time. If some staff can't handle that basic thing. Get rid of them. From what I have said I believe this will create a way more positive and accepting environment where you will have more regular players that will stay because of good staff and fair rules and more donations because of player happiness.
Irrelevant, but I was banned from the server for rdm. From all the restricting rules it killed my fun and made me not care about any consequences.
For the sake of Pandahut, please consider what I have said and turn this into a community wide discussion.
I would be more then happy to discuss any concerns.
If you got this far and read everything, I think you've earned this. https://youtu.be/JOCtdw9FG-s?t=31s
Dutchy liked this
