[Scroffel5]

I actually hadn't played unturned for a while until I randomly got on and went to Pandahut. RP servers, other than Pandahut, are kinda dead or just have too many mods. And what are you talking about? A pvp with 0 players? Then it's not a roleplay. By "normal rules" I mean the basics normal rules on every RP server that is clearly understood, those being the following:
1. No KOS.
2. No Loot Grabbing.
3. No Offline Raiding

Those 3 rules are on almost every other RP. People who come to Pandahut assume that and don't read the rules, then they get banned because there are lots of different rules there. The rest of the rules on other RP servers are unstated but just common sense.

[Apples]

I actually hadn't played unturned for a while until I randomly got on and went to Pandahut. RP servers, other than Pandahut, are kinda dead or just have too many mods. And what are you talking about? A pvp with 0 players? Then it's not a roleplay. By "normal rules" I mean the basics normal rules on every RP server that is clearly understood, those being the following:
1. No KOS.
2. No Loot Grabbing.
3. No Offline Raiding

Those 3 rules are on almost every other RP. People who come to Pandahut assume that and don't read the rules, then they get banned because there are lots of different rules there. The rest of the rules on other RP servers are unstated but just common sense.

And look what happened with the rules we have today. They got us to where we are. We have the most popular RP server on Unturned with many dedicated players the know the rules. Having 3 basic rules leaves room for so many loopholes and trolls. I do believe the rules need to be revamped, but they work.

[Cookie]

I actually hadn't played unturned for a while until I randomly got on and went to Pandahut. RP servers, other than Pandahut, are kinda dead or just have too many mods. And what are you talking about? A pvp with 0 players? Then it's not a roleplay. By "normal rules" I mean the basics normal rules on every RP server that is clearly understood, those being the following:
1. No KOS.
2. No Loot Grabbing.
3. No Offline Raiding

Those 3 rules are on almost every other RP. People who come to Pandahut assume that and don't read the rules, then they get banned because there are lots of different rules there. The rest of the rules on other RP servers are unstated but just common sense.

Ok there is 0 exuse to not reading rules he first time you log in it legit pushes you to open the rules if a player is ignorant enough not to do it thats their fault and as apples said these are the rules that have kept pandahut healty and alive, yes some rules need reworking but thats a very small amount

What i was saying about pvp with 0 players is because there are "normal rules" everyone just bullshits their way into kosing everyone

If you dont like the server dont play it noone is forcing you go play on other servers with "normal rules"

With that all said pandahut arent gonna change like you want because its going to kill the server

[Scroffel5]

As I ALREADY SAID, rules are usually those 3 up there. You typically don't get onto a server and read the rules because you think you know them. However, when someone says you did something wrong, you go and consult the rules. It's human nature to think you know stuff but you don't. AND I already said I like Pandahut, but things need to change because the logic of the rules is stupid, and when you have so many rules, the mods who are always on interpret them there way. That's the same with every book, newspaper article, and law book. Everyone interprets them their own way. The simpler, the better. And Apples, as you said, that is so true that people try to loophole their way out of the rules. There are lots of rules of Pandahut that make sense, but others are just burdens. I have literally tried to tell people what the rules say word for word. Some people say that that makes sense, but then the admins and mods say otherwise. For instance, the rule on KOS says:

You MAY NOT KoS (Kill on Sight) for ANY reason at all. You may only kill other players if the killing is justified by the Roleplay rules.
Almost everyone knows what KOS means. Why say "Kill on Sight" after that, using KoS for it's specific meaning here when it doesn't follow with everything else? KoS means Kill on Sight, which refers to killing someone because you saw them. It could also mean killing someone for their loot, even after you have seen them. Basically, it refers to killing them for no justifiable roleplay reason. However, I have said that multiple times and the mods and admins the same things. "KoS is when you kill somebody." That is simply not true. Killing is when you kill somebody. You don't add a specific scenario (on Sight) to something that is universally known then give it the same meaning as the first word. You can't make an acronym mean what you want it to mean unless you created it. Take a look at another rule:

If you are attacked by a KoSer (Damaged or health has been reduced), you have the right to self-defend. After you've done so, let a staff member know that the person attempted to KoS you.
Not only does that not say that you can ONLY KoS someone if they hit you, as some admins claim is the only time you may "KoS" someone, no one has the right to hit you, or else you get banned for "attempted KoS." First off, if you accidentally hit someone, you shouldn't be banned for attempting to kill them on sight, because thats not true. Second of all, that isn't KoS; it is called "assault without intent to kill." Third of all, in the rules it says if a "KoSer" tries to kill you by damaging you, you have the right to self defend. To be labelled as a KoSer, you have to kill someone ON SIGHT first. However, if you do that you get banned by the admins. HMMM.

These reasons are why the rules have to be more simple. When you read them word for word, as a rule should be, you get a meaning that doesn't make sense, and when you try to interpret what the rule means, you arrive at different conclusions. You have a ton of rules that the admins and mods contradict with what they say, a ton of rules that don't really make sense or apply to a wide variety of scenarios, and a meaning of an acronym that is widely known, but the meaning here is obscured to mean "killing."

[Scroffel5]

I also have another thing to say. What constitutes as a loophole? I can read the rules word for word and try to apply their meaning to the situation and still get banned for "loopholing" just because the admins or mods don't like it. For instance, BMC was running around, kidnapping people. Outspace tried to kidnap Dreamland, and I was watching. Outspace did the /kidnap command and Dreamland hadn't complied yet i.e putting up his hands, getting cuffed, following into the building, and going into the cell. I shot Outspace in the head with an Eagle and in the body a few times, then Dreamland punched Outspace to death. My internet went out and I disconnected and just decided not to come back and I went to Freezzer. I get back on 2 days later and Outspace tells me I was banned for failRP. This is why I think admins shouldn't participate in cases they were involved in, nor should they be allowed to thrust themself in a situation where they can ban someone for killing them.

Another situation, also involving Outspace, was were I built a base for a dude named kzwahr. I told him that, and I quote: I will be your insurance. Then I said something else like: if your base gets attacked or something. I'll rebuild and defend. Or something along those lines is what I said. Outspace used the /raid command. I told him to stop raiding it, and he didn't listen. A cop went up there and told Outspace to please stop, and he was outside for the raid zone and Outspace still shot him and Ztmorris. A dealer or kidnapper or something gave Zt a grizzly, and Zt gave it to me. Then I shot Outspace in the head then body, and I almost got banned for it? Outspace said that I had to own a door or locker to legally defend it. I said: Ok.

Later on, maybe a few days later, I went into world chat and said: Guys, want to learn how you can defend a base for your friend. Or something along those lines. Then MattCobra said he'd ban me for loopholing? I was gonna say that you can put a door or hatch on your friends base, and after I did, they said they'd ban me for loopholing, after I was told that I could do that and legally defend it. HMMM.

Yet another situation, was when BMC again was kidnapping and robbing people. I was looking for their van, because that's what they'd use. The rules say, and I quote: You MAY NOT KoS players for damaging your vehicle! and it also says: You MAY NOT destroy or damage a random vehicle! If caught doing so you'll be punished! I saw those rules and thought that it means you can damage vehicles which a purpose, as long as you don't pop tires. That's what the rules say, and if thats not what they are meant to mean, why have 1 rule that says you cant kill someone who damages your vehicle and another that says you may not destroy or damage random vehicles? HMMM. So I was asking BMC which van was theirs. I had the intent on damaging their vehicle till I saw smoke. (Not randomly, just theirs.) They really wouldn't say because I had that bat out yknow. I didn't damage any vehicles but I told them that they couldn't KoS me for it even if I did. Then another admin said "I'll ban you for loopholing?" I literally showed them were it said I could in the rules and a few of the people on the server went said, and I quote: OOF. So please, explain to me what loopholing is, from an unbiased standpoint, with quotes from the rules.

[Cookie]

Loopholing is bending a rule in a way that benefits you

Atleast thats how i interpret it

Also if a mod is abusive report them with valid evidence
And no you dont get banned if you self defend if someone damages you you have the full right to kos them

I generaly dont see any point in this thread and its just flooding the suggestions subforum . You need to understand rules arent gonna change how you like just because you are ignorant enough that you wont read rules EVERY rule makes sence if you actualy read them half of this fucking post is you bitching about YOU LOOPHOLING and getting banned either take he time to read rules or make an actual suggestion

[Scroffel5]

First off, I have read the rules multiple times. I have read them every single time someone tells me to read them. And yknow what they say every time? "Read the rules." And yknow what they don't say? It is in section so-and-so, rule so-and-so, law so-and-so, ect. They only tell you to read the rules without backing up their claims. They interpret the rules their way, and go by that way. Admins shouldn't be allowed to judge a case that they were involved in or that involves their squad mate. That's how it is IRL. Y'know why? Because then they bend the rules to benefit them, their teammate, or someone else they favor. They are biased in those situations.

Second off, I'm not flooding anything. This is 1 thread, not millions of threads of the same idea.

Third off, screenshots are very very unhelpful. You have to take a video to film evidence of something going on beforehand, so that you get the whole confrontation on video, to prove your point of abuse. Oh, wait. Doesn't that put a lot of unnecessary strain on your computer if it can't handle it? My dear Watson, yes. It does. Another point is that if you report it, based on a rule they broke, and yet you interpret it a different way than another admin who is viewing your report, your report is then denied. As you yourself said:

Loopholing is bending a rule in a way that benefits you

Atleast thats how i interpret it

We interpret rules differently. Can we really base who is right or wrong on someone who is biased towards a rule?

[аvidationn]

Hi Scroffel5.
I often times do see peers justifying decisions using sections of the rules; if you refer to any of my player reports or responses to players' ban appeals (just advanced search 'avidationn' in either of those subtopics), you'll see that I for one specify them. I am not the only one, however. Many other staff members inform a player being banned that they may request assistance on Discord or in-game after their ban has expired, including rule clarifications and the like. You do not see this because, as you have stated, you are aware of the rules and may not be in many modsits. Therefore, you specifically don't witness staff listing sections and rules.
Staff members are not allowed to handle situations that involve them or their groupmate unless other staff members are unable to investigate it. Even then, they are required to request others at the least. The RP staff team recognises that bias would be a large issue if we didn't punish anyone harshly for it, though that is what strikes and demotions are there for.
Screenshots vary in their ability to prove that something occurred. They have their pros and cons; they are able to 'freeze' a moment and- if taken at the right time- are regarded as powerful evidence, however they are easily manipulated and fail to prove anything happened in the majority of modsits. So of course video recordings would be taken as superior, with screenshots coming in a close second depending on their relevance. As for recording software straining your computer and decreasing overall performance, it really is your choice as to whether you wish to record or not. The current methods we rely on do resolve the majority of situations and deliver punishment to the truly guilty party; evidence provided by either side typically aids in further confirmation or additional bans.
I do agree that misinterpretations arise from unusually worded rules. Head RP Administrators rework the rules every two months or so to mend errors and minimise bans issued for common reasons. Perhaps you will like the next rework's content as it may focus on what you, a member clearly striving for the betterment of the Pandahut community, has suggested be done.

[Scroffel5]

Hi Scroffel5.
I often times do see peers justifying decisions using sections of the rules; if you refer to any of my player reports or responses to players' ban appeals (just advanced search 'avidationn' in either of those subtopics), you'll see that I for one specify them. I am not the only one, however. Many other staff members inform a player being banned that they may request assistance on Discord or in-game after their ban has expired, including rule clarifications and the like. You do not see this because, as you have stated, you are aware of the rules and may not be in many modsits. Therefore, you specifically don't witness staff listing sections and rules.
Staff members are not allowed to handle situations that involve them or their groupmate unless other staff members are unable to investigate it. Even then, they are required to request others at the least. The RP staff team recognises that bias would be a large issue if we didn't punish anyone harshly for it, though that is what strikes and demotions are there for.
Screenshots vary in their ability to prove that something occurred. They have their pros and cons; they are able to 'freeze' a moment and- if taken at the right time- are regarded as powerful evidence, however they are easily manipulated and fail to prove anything happened in the majority of modsits. So of course video recordings would be taken as superior, with screenshots coming in a close second depending on their relevance. As for recording software straining your computer and decreasing overall performance, it really is your choice as to whether you wish to record or not. The current methods we rely on do resolve the majority of situations and deliver punishment to the truly guilty party; evidence provided by either side typically aids in further confirmation or additional bans.
I do agree that misinterpretations arise from unusually worded rules. Head RP Administrators rework the rules every two months or so to mend errors and minimise bans issued for common reasons. Perhaps you will like the next rework's content as it may focus on what you, a member clearly striving for the betterment of the Pandahut community, has suggested be done.

+1
I didn't know that they weren't allowed to interfere with a case that involved them, because if so I have been banned like 4 times by someone who was involved in that case. I am grateful for staff like you. You were the one to tell Ztmorris his base got false raided. Then it got fully false raided so it really didn't matter, but it's the thought that counts. You were the one to handle cases fairly on modsits. You have always been good. Keep it up. And yes, I would like that.

[PhantomPear]

-1
this is a horrible idea.